Thoughts on 3.8.2 – Weaving Your Supplementary Warp Sample

Forums Weaving Discussion Online Guild Discussion Season 3 – Pushing the Boundaries of Plain Weave Thoughts on 3.8.2 – Weaving Your Supplementary Warp Sample

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    • #155925
      Ginette
      Keymaster

        Let us know your thoughts on 3.8.2 – Weaving Your Supplementary Warp Sample.

      • #155926
        Fran
        Participant

          Well, I’ve got but four treadles, and I know what they do, and I think that’s a whole lot easier to work with.

        • #155927
          Jane Sullivan
          Participant

            Hi Jane, I have a few questions to ask you. At one point, you mentioned that you wove the sample on a counter balance loom. Is the tie-up on the pdf for a counter balance loom or a jack loom? (I have just acquired a counter balance loom after weaving primarily on a jack loom) Will the tie-up be the same on both types of looms?
            How do you accommodate a loom with 6 treadles instead of 8 to weave the sample? Is it as simple as changing the tie-up of the supplementary warp?
            Thank you for helping me to be a much better and more efficient weaver!

            • #155928
              Ginette
              Keymaster

                Hi Jane,
                At the following mark in the episode 3.8.1, Jane talks about counterbalance looms tie-up (btw, the updated Index is up which includes this episode)
                -tie-up, 3.8.1, 30:38
                -counterbalance looms, 3.8.1, 39:51
                The pattern is for a rising shed loom so yes, it’s a for jack loom. You would just tie up the empty boxes on the tie-up instead of those that are marked.
                For only having 6 treadles, you could pick the Supps Up and Down and Plain Weave treadles and weave for a bit and then you would need to change the treadle tie up to use the As and Bs treadles.
                Hope this helps!

            • #155929
              Maureen Janda
              Participant

                I have not been able to get a clean shed. The supplemental threads are twisted around the basic warp threads and held down in the middle of the shed. I am using 8/2 cotton for the lesson at 16 epi for the center and 18 epi for the fuchsia frame in a 12 dent reed. The center area is slayed 1-1-2 etc, then the two supplemental threads are inserted in the last two slots over the standard warp threads as follows:
                S S
                2-1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1
                I’ve tried everything I can think of – rethreading, resleying re-everything, and I’m stumped.

              • #155930
                Maureen Janda
                Participant

                  Next day: I’ve been playing the video over and over, and I hear Jane saying at 5:30 -ish in the video,
                  “I put them in their own individual heddle” and then “If they’re in their own heddle then nothing ever gets
                  twisty on me.”
                  “Heddle” is singular in both statements. Are each two supplemental threads supposed to be threaded through the SAME heddle and then when sleying from there into the two dents that precede them???

                • #155931
                  Maureen Janda
                  Participant

                    Nope, the last brainwave is wrong. Still have a supplementary twisted around a cayenne thread in the middle of the shed.
                    What am I missing?

                    • #155932
                      Ginette
                      Keymaster

                        Hi Maureen, silly question here but can you check to make sure that supp thread is in the correct heddle? Also, is it just one thread doing this? If it is, is there anything at the back of the loom refraining the thread from moving up and down? I sometimes have a bobbin on top of my castle and the thread hanging, twisting threads in the back.

                        • #155933
                          Maureen Janda
                          Participant

                            It was just careless sleying that caused twists around the supp threads. What made it hard to figure out, for me, is that every one of the supp threads was caught and down in the middle of the shed, so it seemed like I must have threaded the supps wrong. I ended up putting the first supp of each pair in with the threads of the previous dent and the second supp in with the threads of the next dent. Not sure if that,s correct.

                            • #155934
                              Ginette
                              Keymaster

                                Hi Maureen, that sounds correct. Glad you found what was causing that thread to get caught!

                        • #159521
                          dianeg537
                          Participant

                            Hi,

                            I’m about 12 minutes into 3.8.2 where Jane is going back and forth between the ** treadles and the — treadles.  Is she stepping on 2 treadles at once, ie treadle 3 then 4 or both 3 and 4 together to get **, then the same for treadle 5 and 5. Thanks

                            Diane

                          • #159522
                            dianeg537
                            Participant

                              Diane again,

                              I was actually about 20 minutes into the video when Jane was going back and forth between stars and squares.  I think I know realize there are 2 pics for each set of stars and squares.  Hope that’s correct?

                              Thanks for your patience.

                              • #159558
                                Ginette
                                Keymaster

                                  Hi Diane,

                                  Yes you’ve got it, Jane mentions that she’s alternating between the 2 colours, so one colour is 2 picks of stars, the other colour is 2 picks of squares. On the PDF link just under the video,  Simple Supplementary Warp – Draft & Pictures of Sample PDF it will be #12 picture.

                              • #170866
                                Lynn Hicks
                                Participant

                                  I’m looking at the pdf for this sample. #1 says “Supps Down” and I don’t know what that means.

                                  #2 says “1” down, 1″ pw, 1″ down”.

                                  #3 says “1” down, 1″ pw, 1″ down”.

                                  And so forth – does “down” mean the treadles 1 and 2 marked “down”?

                                  Sorry the video seems to say something different but my brain is iffy sometimes.

                                  • #174964
                                    Ginette
                                    Keymaster

                                      Hi Lynn, did you manage to sort it out? The ‘down’ is when you want your supplementary thread to be down when you have your shed open. Hope this helps 🙂

                                  • #172971
                                    fudsy1
                                    Participant

                                      I don’t know which is more exciting,  getting to watch you weave on the David or being able use all 10 treadles for the first time

                                       

                                      david10

                                      • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by fudsy1.
                                    • #174927
                                      joan horwich
                                      Participant

                                        Hi- Do you thread the 2 supplementary threads in the reed by themselves or do they share a reed with the 16/2 threads?   Also, I have not been able to print the colored pages which show the various weaving techniques- I have not had any difficulty printing any other of your PDF’s

                                        Thanks,  Joan

                                        • #174962
                                          Sandra
                                          Keymaster

                                            Hi Joan – the sleying sequence is on the bottom of page 2 of the course material.  Are you still having trouble printing the pages?

                                          • #174963
                                            Ginette
                                            Keymaster

                                              Hi Joan,

                                              Yes the supplementary threads share the reed with the 16/2 cotton.

                                              As for the printing, have you tried on your printer settings ‘scale to fit’ or ‘print entire image’?

                                          • #186481
                                            Geraldine
                                            Participant

                                              Further to Maureen’s question about sleying  the supplementary warps I have come to the conclusion that one supplementary thread has to be moved along So it can be included in with the seventh pair. If left where they are they would have to be included with the 8th pair and the following first pair To avoid crossed threads. Does this sound correct

                                              • #186595
                                                Sandra
                                                Keymaster

                                                  Hi Geraldine, I’ve had a number of friends weave this sample and shawl without problems.  You shouldn’t have any problems following Jane’s instructions.

                                                   

                                              • #194173
                                                Karen Weitzel
                                                Participant

                                                  In starting to weave the supplementary weft lesson I am having the same problem as several people in the previous messages.  Supplementary threads only give me a clear shed when I move them to dent 8 of one section  and dent 1 of the next repeat.  As designed I cant keep both supp threads rising or falling in a clear shed – for instance one thread in heddle 3 behaves properly but the second thread in its own heddle 3 catches on the ground thread from the adjacent dent and thus every second supp thread is caught halfway  in the shed.   Dont know why it doesnt happen at dent 8 and 1 when repositioned.  Advice?

                                                  Thanks!

                                                • #195642
                                                  Neva Thiessen
                                                  Participant

                                                    This problem has been asked several times and I have never seen an answer.  When sleying I put one supplemental thread in the same dent as 2 of the ground warp threads, just as the directions say.   However, when weaving, one of the 2 ground warp threads does not get woven into the fabric and it is looks like its own a supplemental thread.

                                                    Help!

                                                     

                                                  • #195658
                                                    Jane
                                                    Participant

                                                      I found I had to fiddle with the order I threaded them. Two ground threads, go over, pickup the supp and thread, then next ground threads. I originally threaded two ground, two ground, then supps, and had unwoven grounds, and shed trouble. I rethreaded at least three times, but eventually it worked beautifully.

                                                    • #201773
                                                      Helen Deighan
                                                      Participant

                                                        I have been doing this exercise on my Jane table loom. 130 ends on shaft one and the same on shaft two. Supplementaries on three and four. The two shafts at the front are really struggling. Toggle hard to move the top piece of shaft wood is actually bowing and the cord which runs across the top is all loopy and actually falls off the spindle thing at the end. So I decided to take the warp off and re-assemble the loom as I thought something had come adrift. BUT when the warp was off the shafts were all perfect, lined up and balanced. Did I have too many threads on one and two?

                                                        • #201811
                                                          Sandra
                                                          Keymaster

                                                            Plain Weave is woven on 1 and 2, so you have warped correctly.  I’m curious, did one shaft move more easily than the other????

                                                        • #201828
                                                          Helen Deighan
                                                          Participant

                                                            Both 1 and 2 were difficult. I am now thinking it was because I had the warp too tight. So once I get the warp back on the loom I am going to try that.

                                                          • #201925
                                                            Helen Deighan
                                                            Participant

                                                              In the end it was the tightness of warp. So no need in fact to remove the warp! Anyway all back on and the shafts are happy with less tension on the warp. Now to avoid the shuttle going on the floor I have attached a shuttle race to the beater using one of the lee sticks. All working well. Thanks for you support and all the fantastic episodes. Getting me through lockdown😀

                                                            • #211225
                                                              Lee
                                                              Participant

                                                                Helen,
                                                                Are you able to post some pictures of how you use a lease stick as a shuttle raceway?
                                                                I often lose my shuttle in the warp under the loom and your suggestion may help.
                                                                Lee

                                                              • #211270
                                                                Helen Deighan
                                                                Participant

                                                                  Just fixed it with a couple of elastic bands. You have to jiggle it a bit to get it to lie flat but it works and that is the main thing.274558EA-467E-4D17-87A1-735AEF8B0F40

                                                                • #213393
                                                                  GAIL HALKIAS
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    When Jane was dividing sections with 2 picks of a contrasting color, I noticed she didn’t do the trick where you only have one end tucked in.  I was wondering why not.  Is it because her weft was so fine it didn’t really matter if there were two tucked ends on top of each other?

                                                                    • #213396
                                                                      Sandra
                                                                      Keymaster

                                                                        Can you give me the minute mark in the video that you are talking about.  That way I can look it up relatively quickly!

                                                                    • #213398
                                                                      GAIL HALKIAS
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        15.28 is one example.  She does it consistently throughout the sample.  Just for the two pick dividers.  I was expecting her to use the same technique she used with the 8/2 cotton, but maybe this thinner yarn doesn’t need it?

                                                                        • #213399
                                                                          Sandra
                                                                          Keymaster

                                                                            She was doing 2 picks of the same colour.  So, she started the 1st pick on the right side and tucked it in, threw her pick, changed shed and threw another pick and tucked that in as well.  There is nothing else you can do and they were both secured.  When you only have the two picks, there isn’t going to be a build up on one side of the warp, which is what she is aiming to avoid by starting and finishing on opposite side, if possible.  Make sense???

                                                                        • #213400
                                                                          GAIL HALKIAS
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            It still isn’t making sense to me.  With the 8/2 cotton, she showed this technique as an alternative that you can do with two picks of one color.  Normally, she tucks the end into the same shed as she threw the pick, but for this technique, she tucked it into the next shed, so that when the end comes back with the second pick, there is overlap in the same shed and she would cut that other end off about an inch past the selvedge.  After the item was washed, she’d cut it off even with the shed.  How is this not the same thing?

                                                                            • #213406
                                                                              Sandra
                                                                              Keymaster

                                                                                I “see”what you are describing now.  However, this YouTube video – The Little Things – 2 Picks Colour Sequence – might help more than me trying to describe things further – I hope so!

                                                                            • #213428
                                                                              GAIL HALKIAS
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                Sandra, thank you so much!  That is exactly the technique I was talking about.  I weave a lot of tartans and am constantly dealing with 2 picks of one color, so when Jane introduced this technique, I really sat up and noticed!   It’s so very helpful.   That’s why I was wondering why she didn’t do it with the super fine threads.   I’m guessing that buildup just isn’t enough of an issue to worry about.   Thank you so much for putting up with me!

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