Thoughts on 2.6 – Dressing Your Loom Back to Front – Tying onto the Front Apron and Tensioning the Warp

Forums Weaving Discussion Online Guild Discussion Season 1 – Foundation Thoughts on 2.6 – Dressing Your Loom Back to Front – Tying onto the Front Apron and Tensioning the Warp

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    • #157658
      Ginette
      Keymaster

        Let us know your thoughts on 2.6 – Dressing Your Loom Back to Front – Tying onto the Front Apron and Tensioning the Warp.

        2
      • #157659
        Patricia Moore
        Participant

          Enjoyed this whole segment Jane while learning some new techniques.

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        • #157660
          jane_lewis1
          Participant

            Jane, Thank you so much for your clear and logical teaching. I am learning so many techniques, and expanding on my limited weaving skills on my 2 year old Jane 40cm loom. As a novice weaver, I am feeling inspiration and a renewed confidence with your generous imparting of knowledge. Can’t wait to warp and weave beginning anew with your brilliant methods. Thank you.

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          • #157661
            sengle685
            Participant

              Don’t you need to take the lease sticks out before your final tightening at the front? Do the lease sticks cause any differences in the tension now that you are done tying and you take them out?

              Thanks,
              Susan

              1
              • #157662
                Jane
                Keymaster

                  It doesn’t matter whether you take them out before you tie on or after….just not half way through. I remove them once I have completely tied on and fully tensioned so they don’t impede the shed opening.

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              • #157663
                Kristina
                Participant

                  Yes Jane, as a veterinary surgeon, I will confirm what you are using is called a surgeon’s knot.

                  5
                • #157664
                  njschwind
                  Participant

                    Jane, I love your methods! They are logical and easily the most time saving I have seen. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. You are explaining things in ways I can understand and I look forward to learning much more from you.

                    1
                  • #157665
                    Robyn B
                    Participant

                      Great segment. Thank you Jane for sharing your methods. Can you share why you have chosen the Louet looms over others? Do you have a favorite traveling loom? Thanks much.

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                      • #157666
                        Ginette
                        Keymaster

                          Hi rlb353, did you get a chance to watch the episode ‘All about Looms’? It’s episode 8 of Season 1. Jane talks about her looms and I can say that her favourite traveling loom is the ‘Jane’ loom 😉

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                          • #157667
                            Robyn B
                            Participant

                              Thanks Ginette. I just joined and am catching up with season 1 now. Only on episode 4. There is so much wonderful information in each episode that although I’m binge watching, I have to stop and allow processing time. Jane and her team of videographers are doing an amazing job. There is no guild nearby, so this opportunity for long-distance learning from Jane is amazing! Hugs to all.

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                        • #157668
                          roxie.rochat
                          Participant

                            So you’re tieing granny knots? (i.e. both parts of the knot are tied left over right?)
                            Or are you really using square knots? (the second part is a mirror of the first)
                            Square knots are supposed to be more secure but granny may be easier to tie here and “good enough”
                            I think some people leave a loop for the 2nd half so it’s easier to untie, but it’s lumpier.

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                            • #157669
                              cynthiaquilici
                              Participant

                                roxie, the “surgeon’s knots” Jane is tying are like tying a half knot (like the beginning of tying your shoelace), but wrapping the end through one extra time for more surface area (friction).

                                Once you are happy with the tension, then you finish in a “square” knot. I don’t see any reason to leave a loop at that point, since you (hopefully) won’t need to untie these knots.. you won’t see them again until you take your project off the loom.

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                                • #157670
                                  gabi-tomas
                                  Participant

                                    The knots are very easy to untie with a metal knitting needle, if for instance you need the whole tie-up length for a fringe.

                                    2
                                    • #157671
                                      cynthiaquilici
                                      Participant

                                        Oh, that’s a good point! I forgot about fringe.

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                                • #157672
                                  Ann Scanlon
                                  Participant

                                    Thanks Jane,
                                    I’ve been weaving for a few years now, with my first ever ‘no help’, overly ambitious and way to long, table runner wining 2nd prise (1st prise not given) at a major country show here in Australia. But I have progressively forgotten everything after my first (lesson) weaving. It can take me weeks to put a warp on. As long or longer than it does to weave. And I have my own way – different each time. And forget about getting even similar lengths, when using a warping board. I found it easier to use 2 chairs in the end. But I get there eventually.
                                    I listen and look in awe as my fellow weavers can manage a completed work or 2 in a week, when it’s taking me a month just to get ready for weaving, though I do like complicated, wide warps. And they are always surprised when I eventually bring a project in, maybe 6 months after starting.
                                    You have given me so many hints on what I am doing wrong, and little tricks, to help along the way. I can’t wait to get home from this trip of a lifetime, which gave me time to sit back, relax and start to watch the videos, other spinners and weavers in my group are raving about.
                                    I also have a stack of fine silk, in scanes. After trying to wind on the first one, they went into storage. Maybe I will pluck up the courage to make something beautiful with them now, in my usual overly ambitious way.
                                    Looking forward to watching and learning so much more.
                                    AnnS

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                                  • #157673
                                    Emma Hamilton
                                    Participant

                                      What would you do if you had a loom with a cloth apron? ( I do!)

                                      1
                                      • #157674
                                        Ginette
                                        Keymaster

                                          Hi Emma, when I had my Fanny loom which came with one, I added an additional rod and tied it at a few places on the rod with the cloth apron. It worked great for me.

                                          1
                                      • #157675
                                        Lauren
                                        Participant

                                          Hi there, I’m wondering how the cloth beam is connected to the front rod here. I’m on a Harrisville loom that has grosgrain ribbons that are in rough shape and poorly located for tea towels (what I most enjoy making). Looks like there are texsolve cords but I’m unsure how to fasten them.

                                          Thank you,

                                          Lauren

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                                          • #157676
                                            Sandra
                                            Keymaster

                                              Hi Lauren, could you take your question over to the JST Forum? That way you could take photos to show us and maybe get some answers from weavers who know the Harrisville loom.

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                                          • #157677
                                            Carol Burns
                                            Participant

                                              So glad to have joined the guild. Have learned so much . Will be giving the different ideas a try in my next warp. Thank you Jane.

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                                            • #157678
                                              Emma Hamilton
                                              Participant

                                                For things like this it would be great if you had an overhead camera filming from above so people could clearly see how you’re tying those knots. The process is somewhat obscured by your right hand.

                                                Thanks for a great segment, I’ll be using this hopefully today if I finish threading

                                                1
                                              • #157679
                                                Allyson Marbut
                                                Participant

                                                  I am not understanding why my color and weave warp ties loosen right after I tie them on to the apron rod. I am doing exactly what you do – double tie and then go back and snug and final knot tie and they do not stay put. I am resorting to lashing them on tomorrow when I can find some string that is not stretchy and is smooth. This is the second warp of the color and weave I have done. The first one gave me trouble though I managed to weave one gamp and then things went downhill from there. I had to remove the warp and now have the second one on but this issue is making me crazy! All has gone really well with the second warp up until I tied the warp on and they just kept loosening. Lordy … what can I possibly be doing wrong?

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                                                  • #157680
                                                    Sandra
                                                    Keymaster

                                                      What kind if a knot are you using, Allyson? I use a surgeons knot for the first knot and then, I tighten everything up again and tie another knot. With the right knot, it shouldn’t come undone.

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                                                  • #158413
                                                    Carol Pauline Rauss
                                                    Participant

                                                      Allyson Marbut, I wonder if the problem with your knots might be <i>not</i> in the way you <i>tie</i> the knots but in the way you <i>tighten</i> them. Tightening (snugging) them requires lightly lifting the two tails and firmly pushing them away from you while tightening them by pulling the tails outwards.

                                                       

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                                                    • #160446
                                                      Gretchen Green
                                                      Participant

                                                        Anyone know how to chain a mirror warp? I need help. Thanks

                                                        0
                                                        • #160454
                                                          Sandra
                                                          Keymaster

                                                            OK – I’m in the dark – I don’t know what a “mirror” warp is.  Could you explain it to me please Gretchen? 🤔

                                                            1
                                                        • #160847
                                                          Jenni Gormley
                                                          Participant

                                                            It looks like you are going to leave the lease sticks in???

                                                            0
                                                            • #160856
                                                              Ginette
                                                              Keymaster

                                                                Hi Jenni, you can take the lease sticks out for sure. It’ll make it easier to weave.

                                                                0
                                                            • #163383
                                                              Deborah Fister
                                                              Participant

                                                                I am wondering why you lashed on the back beam and tied here. I was taught to tie on, but my tension was a nightmare. as soon as I got to the end of the warp, the beginning was loose. I have started in the middle and worked my way out, used surgeon’s knots. Nothing worked until I lashed on for the first time. Maybe lashing really didn’t make the difference. Maybe I just wound it on better this time.

                                                                1
                                                                • #163389
                                                                  Sandra
                                                                  Keymaster

                                                                    Hi, Deborah. Lashing on makes the end on your warp even and secure as it starts to build up on your warp beam.  Once it is covered by layers of warp, it will stay that way until you start getting to the end of the warp.  THEN, having it lashed is worth its weight in gold!  I speak from experience 😏.  The rod that is holding the warp starts to bend if it’s not secure, taking your even tension with it then the last bit of your warp becomes a nightmare.  I’m sure the lashing made a difference as you approached the end of your warp.  Your skills are building with the more warps you wind, giving warps you are happy with!

                                                                    0
                                                                • #163609
                                                                  Jenni Gormley
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    CC1A84B5-70FB-4A9D-9006-42EB11BF10E8So the Assymetry warp is on the loom ready to be threaded. I had to start all over. The first time it was winding on beautifully and then I didn’t watch it for a minute and suddenly there were knots and broken threads EVERYWHERE. So I had to cut it off and wind it again. (Hopefully I won’t do that too often or my weaving is going to be a VERY expensive habit!!) This time it seems fine. Will thread tomorrow I hope.

                                                                    0
                                                                  • #163610
                                                                    Jenni Gormley
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      CC1A84B5-70FB-4A9D-9006-42EB11BF10E8So the Assymetry warp is on the loom ready to be threaded. I had to start all over. The first time it was winding on beautifully and then I didn’t watch it for a minute and suddenly there were knots and broken threads EVERYWHERE. So I had to cut it off and wind it again. (Hopefully I won’t do that too often or my weaving is going to be a VERY expensive habit!!) This time it seems fine. Will thread tomorrow I hope.

                                                                      0
                                                                    • #165756
                                                                      Leslie Frank
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        Is there a trick or tip to ensure that Threads through the same den are not crossed either between the reed and the heddles Or from the reed to the front tie on?  Does it matter?

                                                                        0
                                                                      • #165761
                                                                        Deborah Fister
                                                                        Participant

                                                                          Leslie,

                                                                          For me having crossed threads can be a nightmare having to undo the knot and trying to find which thread goes where after the fact. That’s where the lease sticks are crucial. I don’t take them out until I am sure I don’t have crossed threads. So when I have 2 threads in a dent one will come from the top and the other from the bottom. For more than 2, dent them in heddle order. That’s what I do. Hope this helps.

                                                                           

                                                                          Debbie

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                                                                        • #172678
                                                                          Mary Sturdevant
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            So, just to reiterate to make sure I have this. The first knot is the surgeon’s knot. Then you crank the ratcheting device to tighten the threads. Next, starting on the right you move steadily and secure all the knots. You are not undoing the surgeon’s knot, you are placing a square knot on top of it? Or another surgeon’s knot? Thank you for any help with this!

                                                                            0
                                                                          • #172686
                                                                            Sandra
                                                                            Keymaster

                                                                              Hi Mary – you’ve got it – and walk your hand across the warp feeling for even tension.  Either knot works for the final knot, and make it tight.  Your warp won’t go anywhere until you want it too 😉

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                                                                            • #173471
                                                                              Bernie
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                I’m so relieved to have discovered your online guild Jane. My struggle with learning to weave to over! The light is flooding in..

                                                                                Thank you!

                                                                                0
                                                                              • #173852
                                                                                Trish
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  Is there a benefit to using that extra rod instead of the rod that attaches to the cloth apron?  Is it just so you have more options onto which to tie?  Or is it better for tension? or something else?

                                                                                  thanks

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                                                                                  • #173857
                                                                                    Ginette
                                                                                    Keymaster

                                                                                      Hi Trish, I think Jane explains it on the video why but it does give me a few extra inches more on my warp so less loom loss when you add another rod, makes it easier for me to lash on and I don’t need to take out the wooden rod from the apron/cords to add my warp onto it. I guess it comes down to preference. If you’ve got another wooden or metal rod kicking around, I’d give it a try and see what you prefer.

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                                                                                  • #173859
                                                                                    Trish
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      Sorry Ginette I was referring to lashing on…I typed too little in the question.  I never take the rod out of the Leclerc apron – I have a rod lashed onto that apron…and now as I’m typing I’m realizing that this is like the extra wooden stick she lashes onto.  My loom is 60inches wide so somehow I didn’t realize till I received your answer that the lashing bar is attached. Sorry for the error. 🙂

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                                                                                      • #173907
                                                                                        Ginette
                                                                                        Keymaster

                                                                                          I see Trish! For me, definitely much easier to tie on with an extra rod 🙂

                                                                                          Just editing to add, I have an extra rod on my AVL loom as it’s much easier to tie on (it has a apron cloth), while my David only has one but no cloth so that’s practical for tying on.

                                                                                          • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by Ginette.
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                                                                                      • #174575
                                                                                        Elizabeth Hill
                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                          Hi,

                                                                                          I keep trying to tie on the way Jane does, but I keep having the problem of the right 1/3 of the warp being looser than the rest. Any ideas about what I’m doing wrong?

                                                                                          Thanks,

                                                                                          Elizabeth

                                                                                          0
                                                                                          • #174582
                                                                                            Sandra
                                                                                            Keymaster

                                                                                              Could the tension be different across your warp as you wind it?  If your pegs are a bit loose, they might pull in as you build up your warp on your warping board or reel.  Then you have to be aware of that as you are winding on.  Because I warp by myself, I go between the back and front of my loom while winding on.  I tug on the paper to make sure it’s tight and then go to the front and pull back on it to make sure the tension is even across the warp as I wind it on.  I don’t have room to put my warp under a pile of books and drag them across – so my way is a bit slower but it gets the job done.

                                                                                              0
                                                                                          • #175237
                                                                                            Ann Nez
                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                              Hi Jane, thank you for this great season, I’ve learned several things that have already improved my warping. I just finished tying on following your method and my apron rod is crooked. It was straight when I started. Now that I’ve tied on and tensioned, the rod is 6.25 inches from the reed on the right side where I started, and 5.375 inches on the left side.
                                                                                              I see that your rod is connected to the cloth beam in four places. My cloth beam has four holes but the apron rod is only connected to the two center holes. Could that be the problem?   My warp is 22 inches wide and extends 6 inches beyond the apron rod cords which are 8 inches apart.

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                                                                                              • #175248
                                                                                                Sandra
                                                                                                Keymaster

                                                                                                  Hi Ann, I think you need to untie your warp, secure your apron rod in a number of places right across it, including the ends.  It needs to be strong and unmoveable so that you can evenly tie-on across the full 22 inches of your warp.  Anything you use to tie-on now can remain in place for all future warps.  Your rod must be bowing at the ends to give you such different measurements between your rod and the reed.  Hopefully, securing it will help – keep us posted.

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