Season 3: Episode 8: Plain Weave with Supplementary Warp

Forums Weaving Discussion Online Guild Discussion Season 3 – Pushing the Boundaries of Plain Weave Season 3: Episode 8: Plain Weave with Supplementary Warp

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    • #92275
      Sandra
      Keymaster

        Is there no end to what you can do with 4 harnesses? Jane proves to us, once again, what dynamic, exciting cloth we can make with 4 – whether on a floor loom or a table loom. Start your journey towards a beautiful holiday gift to yourself!

        (The discussion on challenges with an older Louet David has been moved into a dedicated thread)

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      • #93082
        taty.lauwers
        Participant

          Great lesson once again. I am never disappointed. I also love the way Jane teaches low-tech (like no second back beam – yeah!) and no-fear: great for beginners and shy weavers.

          One question on pdf:  is detail of #23 correct? why twice 134/23?

          Second question: maybe I am not focused, but why in pdf warp colour sequence is ( 16 purple +2 limelight) * 3 + one repeat? why not *4?

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          • #94057
            Sandra
            Keymaster

              Hi, taty.lauwers – I’ve noted your question and will pass on your query to Jane when she is back in the studio tomorrow.

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            • #94492
              Jane
              Keymaster

                Hi Taty,

                That is a boo boo…there shouldn’t be a double 134/23…….and to answer your second question….I have no idea why I wrote it that way….probably because at some other time in this samples life…there was a different colour in the 4th stripe.   Sometimes I just shake my head at how I write things.   This is one of those times….it would have been so much easier to write it x 4…because it is 4 times….Oh well….it’s a good thing I can laugh at myself.  Sorry to have caused such confusion.  When Alastair gets back from holidays I’ll get him to redo the PDF.

                 

                 

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            • #93196
              theresahark
              Participant

                When I weave with all sups down, I get denting.  I have both supp warp threads in the same dent together.  Should I do that differently?

                 

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                • #94058
                  Sandra
                  Keymaster

                    Hi Theresa, I think I may have answered your question when I responded to Dianne, below.  Let me know if that helps.

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                • #93272
                  Sylvia
                  Participant

                    IMG_4437Watched the online guild and had to get a warp on the loom. This is such a nice weave structure. Going to have fun exploring. Using up some yarn.

                     

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                  • #94040
                    diannedavenport
                    Participant

                      I’m going to try getting an answer here.  I cannot get the supplementary warp threads to warp correctly.  The threading is correct according to the diagram at the top of the page   442121212121212121332121212121212121. Each in its own heddle reading right to left and repeating this sequence from fuchsia to fuchsia.  Here is where I have problems. What exactly do you do with 3 and/or 4 when sleying the reed? I either get them separated by a couple of threads or because I cross them over the ground threads there are a supplementary thread and a ground thread sitting in the middle of the shed, which makes it almost impossible to pass a shuttle through.  I am probably overthinking this whole thing, but I cannot go on with my own project. The diagram on the pdf is confusing to me. I can send pictures of my original sample which shows separated supplementary threads because I changed the heddle threading. It worked but the two supplementary threads are separated by a couple of threads.  I would like for them to be next to each other like Jane’s sample. Help!

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                      • #94055
                        Sandra
                        Keymaster

                          I was just trying to reply to you under the episode thread, Dianne!  It seems like we’ve all had very busy weekends on the west coast and I’m just now looking at questions that came in on Friday.

                          Did you follow Jane’s denting chart under the title Centre section in the middle of the draft page, right near the bottom? She shows you sleying the dent with one supplementary thread alone with necessary warp threads in two side by side dents.  Also, have you checked – just to make sure – that you don’t have a crossed thread between the heddle and the dent in the reed.  Just asking because it’s something I’ve had experience with 😉

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                        • #94480
                          Jane
                          Keymaster

                            Hi Dianne,

                            If you are using a 10 dent reed you will have  2 ground threads in every dent.  When you get to the supplementary warps you just put the first one in with 2 previous ends and then your next supplementary warp goes in with the next bundle of 2 ground warps.  You will have 2 dents in a row that have 3 threads in them.  2 of them are grounds and one is a supp.

                            Hope this helps.

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                        • #94067
                          diannedavenport
                          Participant

                            supp weave

                            I have tried two different ways. One gets the image I attached. This is not the warp I see in the video. The other crosses threads between the heddles and the reed. This second way creates raised threads. I am a visual type person. The more I try to decipher everything, the more I get confused. The diagram in the middle of the page of the pdf is not real clear as to where the supplementary threads come from and where they go to.

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                            • #94071
                              Sandra
                              Keymaster

                                I don’t have this warp on my loom – yet 😉  However, if the two supplementary warps are threaded through two heddles, side by side – they should go through the reed that way so that they weave together.  Jane’s diagram of the Centre section shows them with other warp threads in the same dent in addition to the two regular warp threads.  She used 20 epi in a 10 dent reed so that’s the threading she shows us.  Basically you aren’t counting those threads in your cloth – they are floaters that come in and out when you need them.  They can be included in a dent with the PW threads.  Let me know if this helps.

                                Screen Shot 2019-09-15 at 5.53.48 PM

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                            • #94584
                              diannedavenport
                              Participant

                                Thank you for your response Jane. I think I understand what you are saying.  Have gotten the warp resleyed and have woven about half of the scarf I designed using only certain sequences from the sample. Will post a pic when it’s done. It now looks like the sample that is online. Trying to get it finished to show off for our Weaver’s Study Group at Yarnorama in Paige, Texas this Sunday. The majority of our group are members of your online guild and we have lots of discussions about what the latest session is teaching us and showing off our take on what you presented. I have learned so much since I joined in Jan.2019.

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                              • #100368
                                kathleen ready
                                Participant

                                  I love this technique so much that I have warped 4 more scarves in various colours. I used rayon on small spools, (that I got from a stash) for my supplementary warp, it’s very shiny but it doesn’t shrink at all, so ended  up being a bit loopy.

                                  ECDAB044-A15D-4CDA-BF0D-E54B47EA0AC2

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                                  • #100458
                                    Sandra
                                    Keymaster

                                      That is so beautiful, Kathleen!

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                                  • #107773
                                    Maureen Janda
                                    Participant

                                      Hi,

                                      I have a David loom and am getting ready to do the tie-up for sinking shed looms, the reverse of the rising shed tie-up.  On the video, Jane tied up her David according to the rising shed tie-up in her directions. Did she really weave with the rising shed tie-up?

                                      I’m so confused.

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                                      • #107783
                                        Sandra
                                        Keymaster

                                          Hi Maureen, I would tie-up your David as you normally would for our sinking shed looms.  With weaving with a Supplementary warp, they will just be switched in your cloth as you weave, and you won’t notice the difference.  When you take the cloth off the loom, you can decide if you like one side better than the other!

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                                      • #109533
                                        Maureen Janda
                                        Participant

                                          I have not been able to get a clean shed. The supplemental threads are twisted around the basic warp threads and held down in the middle of the shed. I am using 8/2 cotton for the lesson at 16 epi for the center and 18 epi for the fuchsia frame in a 12 dent reed. The center area is slayed 1-1-2 etc, then the two supplemental threads are inserted in the last two slots over the standard warp threads as follows:
                                          S S
                                          2-1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1
                                          I’ve tried everything I can think of – rethreading, resleying re-everything, and I’m stumped.

                                           

                                          This is the supplemental thread in the middle of the shed.

                                           

                                          5540A974-47DE-4DF6-8CD3-73A2A54B3795_MEDIUM2

                                           

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                                        • #109534
                                          Maureen Janda
                                          Participant

                                            I have not been able to get a clean shed. The supplemental threads are twisted around the basic warp threads and held down in the middle of the shed. I am using 8/2 cotton for the lesson at 16 epi for the center and 18 epi for the fuchsia frame in a 12 dent reed. The center area is slayed 1-1-2 etc, then the two supplemental threads are inserted in the last two slots over the standard warp threads as follows:
                                            S S
                                            2-1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1
                                            I’ve tried everything I can think of – rethreading, resleying re-everything, and I’m stumped.

                                             

                                            This is the supplemental thread in the middle of the shed.

                                             

                                            5540A974-47DE-4DF6-8CD3-73A2A54B3795_MEDIUM2

                                             

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                                          • #113680
                                            rachel
                                            Participant

                                              I’m watching the first video for this and have a question.  Apologies if it is addressed further on, but I wanted to ask before I forgot.

                                              Is there a reason the supplementary warp threads are being thread through two adjacent heddles (3/3 or 4/4) rather than just being held together and treated as one end?  I’m assuming it is a potential tensioning issue (which only occurred to me as I was typing).

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                                            • #119874
                                              gabi-tomas
                                              Participant

                                                This is how I tied up my David for sinking shed and with the pw on four shafts as I don’t have enough heddles on shafts one and two and I hate shifting them. The  supp. threads go on shafts 5 and 6. I am ready to weave and everything seems okay.F1A1B564-5BB7-459F-9E0E-554AEBFCE3A4

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                                              • #136503
                                                Judy
                                                Participant

                                                  I think I’ve got it!  the answer was provided by Jane in an earlier post.  I misinterpreted the denting.  I had both sups sleyed in dents in the preceding section rather than one in the preceding and one in the next section.  Jane explains it better!;)  Off to weaving 🙂

                                                  I am not able to create a clean shed.  I am using a Schacht mighty wolf loom.  I believe I have threaded and dented as per the instructions.  The center section denting instructions in our handout seems to indicate to dent one supp warp with two regular warps in one dent.  The two regular warp threads, dented with the shaft 3 supp threads, travel with the supp warp when treadling, creating a nice mid-position.  This only happens when using a tie-up that involves shaft 3 staying down.  Others are fine.  I have looked for crossed threads and have not found any.  If I pull the beater all the way forward, with treadles down,  all warp threads are in the correct shed.

                                                  I’m baffled.  I’d appreciate your ideas and suggestions.  I’m so excited to get weaving!

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by Judy.
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                                                • #158617
                                                  kfagan727
                                                  Participant

                                                    I loved this episode and was keen to try out supplementary warp but had only 6 shafts available. I attach photos showing how I used 1 or 2 swords to create all the options of up/down etc and could get weaving. It is a bit slow but works! I hope this helps others with limited number of shaIMG_1204IMG_8706IMG_2334IMG_4455IMG_5427fts.

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                                                    • #158627
                                                      Ginette
                                                      Keymaster

                                                        Great idea! It looks like your swords are staying in place while you weave.

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                                                    • #160090
                                                      dianeg537
                                                      Participant

                                                        I am putting different colors of chenille warp threads on my loom interspersed with rayon ribbon as supplementary warp.  My question is should I make each warp color group its own chain since I’m interspersing the color groups with the rayon ribbon.  I’m warping back to front.  This is a great way to use my chenille and novelty yarn!

                                                        Thanks,

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                                                        • #160092
                                                          Sandra
                                                          Keymaster

                                                            As long as you are winding your warp in the right order, and keeping that order in your cross – you should be fine.  Have fun.

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                                                        • #160199
                                                          dianeg537
                                                          Participant

                                                            I’ve decided to modify the draft that Jane shows in episode 8 ad just tie up my supplemental warp to shafts 3 and 4 with ground cloth on shafts 1 and 2.  My question is if I thread shaft 3 or 4 twice will it still weave with 1 and 2 as the ground cloth?  Will this create a problem when I am denting?  I am using rayone chenille with a sett of 15 and my supplementary warp is a fine rayon ribbon.  Thanks, Diane

                                                            Supplemental Warp 4 Shaft

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                                                            • #160261
                                                              Ginette
                                                              Keymaster

                                                                Hi Diane,

                                                                they will weave with the ground cloth as long as you’re tie-up is the same as on the draft. I’ve just looked at it and compared it to yours and it looks the same except you have your 3’s 3x in a row separated by 1 & 2, same with the 4’s.

                                                                As for denting, as always, do a sample when you have your warp on and see how it will turn out but I’m looking forward to hearing about it! Love the experimenting & the overlay from one episode onto another 🙂

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                                                            • #165851
                                                              Catherine
                                                              Participant

                                                                What is the function of the cramming on the sides? does it help stabilize an otherwise very open sett?

                                                                Maybe Jane says it somewhere, then I must have missed it.

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                                                              • #165886
                                                                Sandra
                                                                Keymaster

                                                                  Yes, it does Catherine.  The cramming on the edges holds the whole fabric in line 😉

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                                                                • #165942
                                                                  Catherine
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    Thanks. Jane does her cramming with doubling the threads of the warp yarn. Can I assume I’ll get a similar result if I use a yarn of a double thickness with the same sett?

                                                                    I guess I ought to go and watch the cramming episode again!

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